True Node, Mean Node, North Node
Posted under PointsWhat’s the difference between the terms True Node, Mean Node, and North Node?
The terms True Node and Mean Node both refer to the same thing.
True and Mean are two different ways of calculating the Moon’s North Node.
The Moon’s Nodes move backwards through the Zodiac at a rate of one revolution every 18.5 years. When astronomers calculate the Mean Node, they take the nodes’ rate of motion and average it out. The resulting position is the Mean Node.
In reality, the Nodes “wobble” a bit. Once astronomers obtained instruments sensitive enough to measure this wobble, they began to plot its course and call this position the True Node. Although the Nodes move around the Zodiac in a retrograde direction, the True Node is sometimes direct. The Mean Node is always retrograde.
There are plenty of ideas about the meanings of retrograde planets, but I have not heard anything about the meaning of a direct True Node. I suspect it is not of great importance.
Which is better, Mean or True?
There is no agreement among astrologers as to which is better to use in chart analysis. There are valid arguments supporting the choice to use either one. They are never more than a few degrees away from each other, so it probably doesn’t matter much.
Molly Cliborne
1 · Peter den Haring · 8 August 2005
True or Mean Node is only a relevant subject when this position is conjunct with a planet or housecusp. F.i. my North True Node is exact at Uranus and MC (5.July 1946, Utrecht-Holland, 11.02 a.m.). Do we explain the Node as in 9. or 10th House?2 · Molly · 8 August 2005
Conjunct the MC gives it a very strong 10th house flavor, regardless of whether it is in the 9th or 10th house. (It's the same with any planet or point. If it's near a house cusp, it often expresses quite strongly as being in the following house. This is strongest for the angular houses but still relevant for other houses.)3 · Deb · 29 August 2005
My North Node is on my descendant/South on Ascendant...Help!4 · Molly · 29 August 2005
Deb, just read it as North Node in seventh (Libra), South in first (Aries). If you don't have Jan Spiller's book, I recommend it highly. It's a very good read on the Nodes.5 · b.c. walker · 27 September 2005
What is the significance of a North node in retrograde. Would the south be consider in retro too? My True node is a Libra/ Retro? Destined to remain alone? So far, it may very well be true. Do you recommend any books that may have the answer to a retrograde node?6 · Molly · 27 September 2005
b.c.--The nodes are almost always retrograde. It's not a big deal.
Suggest you get a copy of Jan Spiller's book Astrology for the Soul and read up on your placement by sign and house. You are way off in your interpretation.
7 · Jay · 8 October 2005
Hi Molly--My north node is conjunct the true node. What does that mean?
8 · liss · 18 October 2005
My boyfriends True node on his natal chart is Virgo...I was just wondering what significance that holds to his personality. Thank you.9 · Molly · 18 October 2005
Node interpretations10 · lijn · 26 January 2006
The North Node just got in Transit passed my Sun, time to change my lifedirection, and is now going over Chiron. It has been a long time since I so pittied myself, time to lick my wounds I guess.
11 · Baljit · 1 February 2006
My mean node (the one with a dot in the centre) is just turning retrograde whilst my true node isnt ; what does it mean? Which one should I rely on for my calculations,charts and predictions? Is it important ? What proof is there that the nodes can effect human behaviour? How do they? What do they actually represent?
How do you calculate these and Lilith & Pars Fortune..also with the same questions above for these hypothetical points.
12 · Alyson · 3 June 2006
My north Node is on a cusp between pisces and Aries, what does this mean?
13 · Dilojan · 12 July 2006
In my birthchart the True (north) Node is in Cancer 14°08’36, 7th house, retrograde. Does this node have anything to do with – or has it any significance for my relationships? My 7th house is empty and i’m seriously worried about my lovelife; wether i’m gonna have one or not. How to interpret the node?
14 · Venussquare · 12 July 2006
The Nodes can be in retrograde, Molly? I never knew that.
15 · Molly · 12 July 2006
Dilojan, yes it is very significant. Check out my Node interpretations for the reader’s digest version, or read Jan Spiller’s book (link provided on interpretations page) to really get into it.
Venussquare, yes, the nodes are nearly always retrograde, rarely direct.
16 · María · 28 August 2006
Hi Molly,
Thanks for the info about the North/South Nodes. I am very curious about a North/South Node return. These seem to be 18 to 18 1/2 yr cycles. Does this have significance for the person?
Thanks
María
17 · Molly · 29 August 2006
Hi Maria—Yes, they are significant. Certainly 18 years old, the age of the first node return, is a significant milestone, considered a passage into adulthood. The Nodes are about connections with other people, and the return symbolizes a cycle coming to completion and a new one beginning. Best way to really learn it is to think about what happened in your life when your Node returns happened.
18 · lisa · 5 October 2006
hey molly i was wondering what it would mean if my north node taurus was in the seventh house?
19 · Aggie · 6 November 2006
Hi Molly,
I have a question – is there any significance in the fact that two people have their opposite nodes conjunct one another? This means that my south node is conjunct the other person’s north node and vice versa. And the orb is less than one degree.
20 · rosalind · 21 November 2006
I have north node conjunt my boyfriend’s venus, southnode conjunt his moon, his northnode conjunct my venus and his southnode conjunct my saturn! it seems like these must be good as we are so compatible. what does it mean
21 · Philipp Cyriakus Crazy Horse von Haag · 4 January 2007
I have read that nodes aren’t really allowed as making aspects because they are not real heavenly bodies themselves but rather by using a mathematical process to divine a line are created by the astrologers. An exception, I’ve read, is in the case like mine where there is a conjunction of the north node with a planet (perhaps more so the more significant within the chart’s context is the planet). Further, in Indian astrology, or rather numerology (under 4, Rahu, the Dragon’s head), it was mentioned that specific planets conjunct it bestow specific talents, and this included my chart ruler, Jupiter, conjunct the north node (and the sun) in the first house. But Jupiter is at about 17 degrees and 52 ‘seconds’ (?), where the true position of the north node is actually more than 60 ‘seconds’? away at 16 degrees and 47 seconds/? I wanted to know if I should count the node as being more or less than one degree away from Jupiter (the mean position of the north node is 17 degrees and 14 seconds), as I know when talking about fixed stars notice should be taken where the planet is within 60 or 30 seconds of the star, but not when it has past that small, strict orb.
Yours Sincerely
Philipp Cyriakus Crazy Horse von Haag
22 · Molly · 5 January 2007
Hi Phillip. Yes, I agree that the Nodes do not form aspects. They have no mass, and as such, they are said to not “cast rays,” which is an old fashioned term which basically means form aspects.
However, planets do “cast rays” and can form aspects to the Nodes. I do use wide orbs when considering these. A one degree orb definitely counts in my book.
23 · Mark · 27 February 2007
My mean node is in Scorpio, and my true node is in Sagittarius! I’d like to get an understanding of my soul’s ultimate direction . . . should I read both Scorpio and Sagittarius interpretations, or find out more about the specific colorations of the Sag/Scorpio cusp? Any help would be much appreciated!
24 · Molly · 2 March 2007
Hi Mark— Why not read both and see what resonates for you? One may resonate more than the other, or both may offer you the perspective you need.
25 · sophie summer · 3 March 2007
Hi,
I’m trying to find the meaning of my NN on the cusp of Virgo/Libra in 12th house. And I find it very strange because the meanings are crossed: NN in virgo in 12th house which is ruled by pisces and SN in pisces in 6th house which is ruled by virgo. How can I interpret better my nodes because my north mean node is in libra and my true north node is in virgo?
thanks
upov
26 · Molly · 3 March 2007
Sophie,
This page is about what the nodes are. Interpretations are on another page. In the comments, you’ll find I have answered the question about “reversed” nodes.
27 · jonathan · 28 March 2007
hi molly,
i have my north node conjunct pluto in the 5th house?Can you tell me where my soul growth should be directed? 08.30 gmt leicester u.k 11th march 1961
28 · synastry · 17 November 2007
I have the same question as someone above… how would I interpret someone’s north node conjunct my south and obviously vice versa? An exchange of karma/life lessons from past and present lives?
29 · Molly · 17 November 2007
eh, maybe. I have had this with folks, and it isn’t as powerful as a planet conjunct either node. It has been more like, “you’re doing A? Great, I’m doing B. Okay, cool. See ya.”
30 · traci · 19 November 2007
Molly, this week the north node goes over my sun. Pisces Pisces. Any thoughts? As it’s gone through Pisces, I’ve been looking for signs about what I’m here to do, was expecting some grand event to happen or for a new job to fall in my lap…because of the ‘fated’ quality of nodal returns from what I’ve read. My actual nodal return was a routine work day. I noticed I could be nice and understanding with my co-workers, which was a more subtle result than I’d expected but there was a serenity to having that connection. My secret fear has been that if I’m doing something mediocre career-wise around the nodal return, that it will somehow define the next 18.5 years of my life….and yet I haven’t been scared enough to leave my job or move.
Also, wanted to thank you for writing about the nodes…I love this part of astrology and am enjoying your site.
31 · jo · 5 December 2007
What about
Pluto Retrograde conjunct the Lunar Node?
32 · jo · 5 December 2007
And Venus Retograde Aries?
33 · Jacobus · 10 December 2007
But what does the True Node represent in a person’s chart, qualitatively?
34 · wilson · 1 January 2008
can any one explain the exact (mathematical ) relationship bet ween the True node and the North norde
35 · Molly · 1 January 2008
umm… maybe NASA?
36 · Ana · 26 March 2008
Sun in Scorpio in the sixth house Ascendant-Gemini and Moon in Pisces in the eleventh house. What character this combination makes?
37 · amina · 16 May 2008
Hello molly ,
please tell me what does it mean if my partners northnode conjuncts my moon and south node in pisces, and my north node, saturn and jupiter conjunct his south node in virgo?
38 · Molly · 16 May 2008
Amina,
Jan Spiller has a new book on the Nodes in relationships. I would suggest that you find the book and look it up. I don't have it yet. But it looks good, and she is the authority on the Nodes as far as I am concerned.
39 · CC · 24 May 2008
My progressed NN in Leo is conjunct progressed MC- I feel a very strong social shift & sudden popularity in my favor- good stuff!
I live in NYC by the way, the best place to be seen & social network.
40 · Christian Ruiz · 28 July 2008
My true node is in Capricorn in the 4th house what does this mean exactly… also, getting off the subject a little. Me and My girlfriend have the direct opposite in Nodes. I have Capricorn on my North Node & Cancer on my South Node. She has the same thing but reversed as far as Nodes are concerned…what does this mean???Kind of Mystical I thought.
chris
41 · Christian Ruiz · 28 July 2008
Also, In Vedic Astrology it is stated that during a Lunar ECLIPSE one should not be casted upon the Shadow as it will bring misfortune also you are not suppose to eat as the during a full moon we bloat due to the Moons Pull and the Earths Gravity. One more thing the lunar eclipse fell on my Birthday and I know I ws out and about? Can you shed some light on this issue.
chris
42 · Molly · 10 August 2008
Not really, Chris. I have never heard this idea that one should not be casted upon by the Lunar Eclipse before. It sounds rather superstitious to me. As for eating on the Eclipse, I have read that in Paungger and Poppe’s book Moon Time, they do say it is advantageous to fast at both the new Moon and the full Moon. Because the body absorbs things better during the full Moon (including toxins) and the body detoxes and lets go during the new Moon. (It’s a really good book.) I’m not into fasting though. So I wouldn’t advise doing it without support from someone who knows what they’re doing. (See The Fasting Path.) And I don’t think you have to, necessarily. But if you do, these are good times for it.
As a non-faster, I take note of these periods and, although I can’t say I’m a perfect healthy eater, I can say I do notice I pay a higher price for unhealthy eating, and I get the benefit of the good I do for myself.